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Polo Storico Certification

Discussion in 'Lamborghini Discussion (not model specific)' started by Rossocorsa1, May 8, 2019.

  1. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 Karting

    May 14, 2017
    196
    Has anyone had their vintage/classic Lamborghini Polo Storico certified? This intrigues me a lot. While I’m well aware of Ferrari’s Classiche Certification’s shortcomings, I remain a fan and have had both my Ferrari’s certified. At the appropriate time I intend on doing the same for my Countach. I’d love to hear others thoughts on this, particularly those who have had their cars certified:

    https://www.lamborghini.com/en-en/news/lamborghini-polo-storico-archive-certificates
     
  2. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed Formula Junior
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    Aug 22, 2002
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    so as of a cple years ago it was a sham. i dropped my car off at the dealer - they told me to qualify for the certification the car needed about 30k of maintenance work - nothing about restoring parts back to oem, just pure maintenance - it needs brakes, tires, etc...
    so after 2 years and 30k of maintence which i dont think i needed here is what i got:
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 Karting

    May 14, 2017
    196

    Seriously? Did it come in a nice bound book or anything? How was it packaged? In the video they show a very fancy box of sorts. That’s nothing like the red book. Aside deck
    The 30K maintenance, was there a fee for certification?
     
  4. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed Formula Junior
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    pdf
    not sure if there was a fee. at 30k it was irrelevant..
     
  5. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 Karting

    May 14, 2017
    196
    I see. And, as for the packaging? Nothing? They just emailed you a pdf. document?
     
  6. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed Formula Junior
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    Aug 22, 2002
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    yup
    let me know if they are doing something better these days. they didnt even put pics of the engine!
     
  7. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 Karting

    May 14, 2017
    196
    #7 Rossocorsa1, May 9, 2019
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
    Thanks for the info. I have both my Ferrari’s Classiche Certified and the best thing about it is the red book. I’ll let you know as I dig deeper.
     
  8. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 Karting

    May 14, 2017
    196
    Would love to hear other testimonials or thoughts.
     
  9. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed Formula Junior
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    Aug 22, 2002
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    yeh - ive been spending money on cars for 20 yrs - i always knew there wld be a day when i woke up and id call myself a moron. this was that day. having owned all these cars and spent all the money on them was largely a waste. for cars like the f40 its an afterthought and the only thing that keeps me from going on meds is i paid 82k for my countach. have easily spent that much "maintaining" it while driving maybe 500 miles in 9 years. MORON.
     
  10. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 Karting

    May 14, 2017
    196
    Yes, I've read your many posts lamenting the fact that you regret your car hobby. Just a suggestion - sell and get out.
     
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  11. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed Formula Junior
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    Aug 22, 2002
    868
    love/hate relationship with some of the cars. i hope you find a better storico experience!
     
  12. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior
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    Nov 18, 2007
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    Mikael
    With Ferrari Classiche, it basicly replys to queation; Is it a Ferrari? - Yes it is!

    But it fails to awnser anything important, like with classic Ferrari's; What engine it got, (and what engine should it have, what is a sceary question...), What parts car came out with; original alternators, ignition system, cam specification, fuel pumps, steering specification, gearbox ratios and so on. These really important information Ferrari keeps hidden. instead they awnser guestion like "is it a red car?"
    There really is nothing that interesting in Lamborghinis why I would need Polo Storico information, All parts are same, (or some what) Lamborghinin did not race their cars and some point building cars where so "hand to mouth" -type of living that really interesting part would be; Who's got "factory office" floor carbet in their cars (I do) , because factory did not have money to buy carpets or why there are factory workers hour chart to insulate air pump controll unit or who's did not get aluminium water pipes, because steel was cheaper and I'll bet they did not write those things in car data sheet.
    In my understanding data from engine test is there, but nothing much more.

    Lamborghini Polo Storico certification; I hope it would awnser more to the guestion then "is it a Lamborghini?"
     
  13. joe sackey

    joe sackey Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Classiche Certification - It answers much more than whether it is a Ferrari, or a red car.
    The Certification (Scheda Technica Certificazione) identities full chassis number, date of production & delivery, official name of original paint & color code, official name of interior leather & color code plus note of special carpet or trim, notes of any special build features or appointments, engine number & specification, ignition system type, gearbox type & number, differential type & number, rear axle ratio, suspension type, brake system & type, wheel dimensions & type, original tire dimensions & type, fuel system type, oil system type, exhaust type, servicing & overhaul notes, restoration notes, race or competition history,

    Polo Storico Certification - There is even more individuality in Lamborghinis than Ferraris for all manner of economic production reasons such as you refer to which is exactly why one would benefit from a thorough Certification. For example, a notation that a particular Countach had unique office-spec carpeting such as you mention would be worth knowing. As regards the Nuova Automobili Lamborghini SpA individual data sheets, they do offer much more information than just the engine test data, they are in fact quite detailed.
     
  14. ilrglen

    ilrglen Karting

    Sep 30, 2005
    146
    Yorkton, SK, Canada
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    Glen Kohut
    What do you get with the Ferrari Classiche Certification and what did it cost you?
     
  15. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior
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    Nov 18, 2007
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    Yes, I have one of those.
    Basicly it is "wikipedia" for one individual car model, but issue is that you do not get original build sheet and that information is what matters; or does Classihe Certification say gearing rations or specify if car got original build number steeringbox? It does say "car got Weber carburetors - yes" and "Car got marelli ignition - yes"
    You do not not get real information, you only get nice box that basicly says "you got it" and after that Ferrari want's more money so you can keep it.
    Sceary part with Ferrari and build sheets is what reads there and that is why Classiche Certification is so sketchy.
    With Lamborghini there is not engine swap issues or anything of scale of possible issues with cars.

    I have not seen Lamborghini build sheet or Storico Certification.

    BUT I like to note how Jaguar does this:
    https://www.jaguarheritage.com/archive-services/certificates/
     
  16. Claudione

    Claudione Rookie

    Jan 22, 2012
    13
    Hi, I am a Classic Lamborghini Owner and I would never submit my car to the factory to obtain a certification. I doubt they have the knowledge and the passion to evaluate correctly any historic car. I have some personal experience, that I will not share, wich encourage me to speak out my persuasion. I think it is much better to study first hand, learn to appreciate details and, most of all, use the money you might spend for a certification to ameliorate your car and get the best out of it.
    I do understand, though, that someone at the factory feels the eagerness to catch some of the money flowing around and get their share of the added value these cars accumulated in recent years.
    Going back to evaluation of classic cars, I believe the priceless experience of those who have been around Lamborghini for years to be much more relevant than the opinion of some newly hired executive, who probably must meet some financial result at the end of the year.
    I hope my opinion did not offend anybody, I just felt to sahre it with you all after long reflection.
     
  17. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 Karting

    May 14, 2017
    196
    I have both my 1989 328 GTB and my 1999 355 F1 Berlinetta Classiche certified. You must take your car to a Classiche authorizes Ferrari dealer where they document the car with a ton of photographs and complete a very thorough application. There is some disassembly required, depending on the car, for serial number and components verification, etc. The library of images and detailed application is then submitted to the factory via Ferrari of North America. The Classiche research team in Italy then verifies that everything on your car matches their records and that the car is “pure” from an original specification standpoint. It is not uncommon for this process to take many months and for additional requests for details and photos to come back. The research team may reject an application during this process if a car does not meet their standards. Obviously you can choose to correct the issue or not. Once the research team is satisfied they then recommend your application to the Classiche committee for approval. The committee, chaired by Piero Ferrari. Assuming the committee approvals the application then your car is issued a very elaborate, hard bound Classiche “Resbook” that also comes in a hard sleeve. I can take some photos of mine later. The book has many detailed images of your car as well as a summary of its numbers and components, as well as a verified certificate signed by Piero Ferrari. You also receive a beautiful plaque that some install in their car. Lastly, there is a small booklet that’s included that is for annual verification and stamping where the dealer confirms that the car has remained in it’s certified state.

    Prices vary based on the model. In my case, I believe it was about $5,000 each, give or take a few hundred. Obviously my models are easy. You can appreciate that this process and the cost is much more significant for some of the vintage greats.
     
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  18. Olivier NAMECHE

    Olivier NAMECHE F1 Rookie

    Aug 18, 2007
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    The PDF shows a factory builtsheet, this is not a Polo Storico certification

    How much the dealer charged you for that document ?
     
  19. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed Formula Junior
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    Aug 22, 2002
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    i really dont remember.
     
  20. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 Karting

    May 14, 2017
    196
    I have been in contact with Polo Storico in Italy. I’ll have more details soon.
     
  21. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed Formula Junior
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    Aug 22, 2002
    868
    in lieu of the crappy experience i had i got valentino to look over my car
     
  22. EarlyCat

    EarlyCat Moderator
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    Mar 9, 2005
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    Shot gun shack in another part of the world
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    That means more to me than the certification. When I got the COA for my 930, I had to tell them everything just to get the info back on the paper. Engine & transaxle #'s. You would think a company like Porsche would be able to tell me the numbers & not just confirm.
     
  23. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 Karting

    May 14, 2017
    196

    My main interest in wanting to learn more about Polo Storico certification is out of curiosity at this stage. The program likely has its weaknesses, I’m sure. Still, I do have an interest in it, if for no other reason than it will add another layer of provenance to my car. By example, for all its shortcomings, and it definitely has them, Ferrari Classiche has become a credible element to a cars integrity. It’s the official stamp from Maranello. I also have to admit, the physical red book is pretty darn cool.
     
  24. joe sackey

    joe sackey Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #24 joe sackey, May 23, 2019 at 8:33 PM
    Last edited: May 23, 2019 at 8:54 PM
    My point was, the Certification answers much more than "whether it is a Ferrari, or a red car" and your assertion that it "fails to answer anything important" is not accurate.

    Most factory Certifications do not give you the build sheet as the factory holds that as proprietary information, what you get is the Certification which confirms certain items on the build sheet, this is clearly still valuable to thousands of people who are willing to pay for it, and Ferrari's Classiche Certification tells you much more than just whether it is a Ferrari, or a red car.

    How are you concluding that "with (classic) Lamborghini there is not engine swap issues"? That's not accurate either, there are a number of Miuras & Countachs that have had engines swapped by the factory & elsewhere post-production.

    Regarding the Jaguar Heritage Certification, they have different parameters than say Porsche, Ferrari or Lamborghini, but note they say "it may not be possible to issue a certificate with all the information about the car. Please note that the Jaguar Daimler Heritage Trust reserves the right to refuse to issue a certificate", same as the others.

    Thank you for that useful & accurate description.

    Build sheets with much more information are unfortunately not part of Porsche's COA program, the latter is simply a diploma which confirms livery and basic chassis & engine number.
     
  25. joe sackey

    joe sackey Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Polo Storico will get better, it takes positive constructive open feedback for anything to improve, given the latter, it should become an asset, and as with all things, if everyone signals a desire for improvement, it'll happen.

    I remember when there was no Polo Storico anywhere in sight for Lamborghinis compared to other marques, at least now it has started.

    My constructive input would be they should have more of the men from the old days who actually built the cars on the PS team.
     
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