Miura, the original supercar | Page 781 | LamborghiniChat
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Miura, the original supercar

Discussion in 'Lamborghini Supercars' started by joe sackey, Dec 5, 2006.

  1. cnpapa24

    cnpapa24 Formula 3
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  3. Robert W

    Robert W Formula Junior

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    Simon Kidston has added a “ happy to be corrected” to the post on Instagram about this car
     
  4. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ

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    That's good, as it should be.

    Meanwhile another Miura observer tells me that this is not really an end-of-year-story as the post suggests in it's save-the-best-for-last declaration, the car was sold some time ago and already dismantled last August as shown below.

    Accuracy is important, even on social media.

    Meanwhile Happy New Year and a healthy & prosperous 2021 to all.

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  5. Robert W

    Robert W Formula Junior

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    Joe, you seem very keen to pick holes in a solid story. It comes across as ... unnecessary. Robert
     
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  6. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Robert,

    Happy New Year to you and yours!

    Thank you for the opportunity to clarify why my posts are necessary.

    The context you are missing is that the protests regarding SK's posts do not originate from me at all, I am too busy doing other things to track everything that is said publicly about Miuras, rest assured. The erroneous posts are drawn to my attention by a number of well-placed European and USA Miura owners, who also supply the images I post. It's as if people in the community come to me as some sort of a referee with whom they wish to check the validity of certain posts (which they already seem to know to be inaccurate), and, as you know, I'm happy to oblige as a necessary resource. Consider my posts here to be polite and diplomatic, relative to the sentiments I receive from the aforementioned Miura owners.

    Bear in mind too, that inaccuracy and/or exaggerated storytelling seems to be a recurring theme with SK, and perhaps this is the central issue that causes the reporting in the first place. It is unnecessary on his part, and the simple solution to all this is for accurate information to be posted in the first place. Given that he holds himself out to be an expert in the subject, a published one at that, expectations that he should be accurate are fair.

    The false claim that 4826 was the last SV owned by an original owner (a monumental gaffe IMO) shows that bold claims are publicly made without bothering to fact-check. The owner of a Miura he has owned from 1972 has every right to complain! It appears to me that where Miuras are concerned, the assignation of "the last one" is loosely used ... As you yourself know, in a world where specific historical information makes all the difference to standing, provenance and value, it is absolutely necessary to publicly correct misinformation publicly posted, for the sake of the history of the cars.

    Meanwhile, the story of a Miura SV reported as the last one with an original owner, and reported as an end of year sale, is about as solid as a rust-corroded Miura chassis, rectification is both necessary and appropriate.

    Here's to a healthy, positive & productive 2021 for all!
     
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  8. rmolke85

    rmolke85 Formula Junior
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    If an expert claimed a found car as significant as a Miura was the last with an original owner and I was an original still holding on, I would be pretty pissed as it may sow doubt among serious buyers in the future. But I must say the fantasy around some of these stories is quite amusing.
     
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  9. raymondQV

    raymondQV F1 Rookie

    Aug 22, 2007
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    does anybody know about the whereabouts of #3381?
    Prod. #149, 1.3.1968, Delivered to Foitek
    1982: Rip Martin, Motique Ltd., Aspen, CO (found in the LCA Newsletter March 1982)
     
  10. simpen

    simpen Rookie

    Jun 14, 2016
    25
    I don't think that was an opportunity for you to clarify anything, but it's a discussion forum, so feel free.

    But it gave me a good chuckle reading your retort with the big words and holier-than-thou tone. Why? For all the doubts and claims you throw around, you don't seem bother to do your own fact-checking and look at the post itself. This is what we are talking about:
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    He is talking about posting a story at the end of the year as a 2020 wrap-up, not about when this specific car was found.
    He is talking about owners who collected it new from the factory, which is not the same as an owner from new who collected it at a dealership.
    He added the "Happy to be corrected" later, which seems like the appropriate place to voice your concerns (& a gentleman-like gesture, rather than throwing around terms like 'monumental gaffe', since you seem to misunderstand the entire post).

    I enjoy both your posts (when factual) and SK's stories (with a pinch of salt), but your last post was just to discredit SK and is not necessary on this forum.
     
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  11. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Simpen, you are right, this is a discussion forum wherein I started this thread 14 years ago, the mainstay of which is clarifying things as a necessary resource to the community, and my straightforward post above is no different, it makes an indisputable clarification, nothing holier than thou about it at all.

    Come now though, talk about unnecessary: your post is a little late to the game and simply attempts to make excuses for SK's mistake, using a later version of SK's original post, the wording of which has been altered from a definite claim of the last SV owned by anyone, to probably the last SV owned by someone who collected it at the factory. Did you see the original post? The owner of 5024 did, a monumental gaffe in his opinion, and he thought it necessary that a correction should be made, so I did. Of course, SK now says he is "happy to be corrected" which is good, but note that this was was added only after he was called out and supplemented by a change in story, which underscores that my post was both relevant and necessary.

    Here's an important question:

    How would you personally feel about SK's original IG post if you owned Miura SV 5024 since 1972 (a full 1.5 years before 4826 was purchased) and you still owned it today? Would you feel it necessary to correct a mistake posted publicly stating that some other car was the last one owned by an original owner thereby diminishing the standing of your own car? I think the answer is clear, as confirmed by the son of the current owner of 5024, and it should be easy for anyone to understand why I've made the posts on this.

    IMO there is no difference in long-term ownership standing between an owner who collected a new SV at the factory versus one who purchased a new SV off the New York Auto show stand, an original owner is an original owner, collecting the car at the factory was not an option everyone desired or could take advantage of, so changing the wording is simply splitting hairs with the 'last' theme, one might as well mention it was the last blue Miura delivered, the fact remains that the original intent of suggesting that 4826 had the last original owner has been disproven and people feel it's necessary that this information is out there.

    Meanwhile, if anyone has discredited SK, it is SK himself by his original post made publicly without fact checking.

    This.

    The central issue which some apparently seem to be having difficulty understanding.

    Happy New year to you guys by the way, 2021 will be epic, let's get it!
     
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  13. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ

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  14. SupercarGuru

    SupercarGuru Formula Junior

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    #19511 SupercarGuru, Jan 2, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2021
    Since 1972 my father has lovingly owned Miura SV Chassis #5024. The car has never seen rain, never been in the snow and was driven sparingly on early mornings on the Massachusetts Turnpike during the 1970s. No one, with the exception of my father has driven it, serviced it or touched it. After moving to Florida in the late 1970s, he would rarely drive the car and for the past 40 years, it has remained tucked away in a climate controlled garage.

    Like clockwork, he starts it once a month, checks all of the accessories, tries the horn and turns on the AC. It still wears its original "Pig Skin" leather, the mechanical is completely original and perfectly preserved. In the 1990s he hired some of the best artisan painters in the country to complete one repaint to original lacquer black, in an insane effort to correct some of the mistakes made during production.

    For years, I resented my fathers OCD nature and religious-like worship of his Miura SV. It could be argued that his obsession with Chassis #5024, led to my parents divorce.

    Today, I have learned to appreciate his passion for preservation and his love for his Nero Miura. It was never about the money or value of his prized possession. He has never shown the car and doesn't care for it to be on the internet. He is not looking for attention or credit.

    While he has no intentions to sell his Miura SV, my father and his commitment to this car deserve the proper respect and credit.

    Joe is 100% correct. The facts are important.

    All of this being said, it is very exciting that Simon has discovered another incredible Miura SV. There is no doubt that Chassis #4826 is worthy of excitement and praise. I am sure Cremonini will complete a stunning restoration.

    Happy New Year to all.
     
  15. Olivier NAMECHE

    Olivier NAMECHE F1 Rookie

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    it was just an assumption, yes please ask Rolf... so we get the full pic
     
  16. Lemacc

    Lemacc Formula 3
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    i do not need to.
     
  17. simpen

    simpen Rookie

    Jun 14, 2016
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    Joe, I don't think this is a subject worth more discussion, but since you specifically addressed me I will respond.

    I can only base my opinions on what I see & when a mistake has been corrected, the point has been made and we can move on. What kind of rectification do you want to see that is not there now and you so indignantly ask for in your post #19505? "There are still other one-owner SVs out there, watch the space of a competitor broker?" It is not the facts I dispute, it is the unforgiving manner in which, as of recent, you seem to turn every SK story in a pissing contest. Not looking to get involved, I don't have the bladder for it.

    Regarding your questions:
    * If I was a first owner, with no intention to sell, I would let SK know he is wrong and needs rectify. Probably take it as a good opportunity to drive the Miura again, to ascertain the fact that despite somebody said something on the internet, life is still good.
    * If I was a first owner, with intention to sell, I would let SK know he is wrong and needs rectify. I would also ask for how much it was sold & know that I would get at least that amount and then some, because the main take-away from the post is that there is one less member in the very exclusive club of first-owner Miuras. Standing of the car would only have increased tremendously I imagine, can't be too many with their original owners left.

    Value-wise or, I agree with you, there is absolutely no difference where the car set off with its original owner. Talking about the specific history of one example such as #4826, there is a huge difference, because it corrects an incorrect assertion about the car (Q.E.D.) into a probably true one (until proven false).
    Since SupercarGuru can confirm there is no intention to sell or care about internet credits involved, we can leave it at that. Best.
     
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  18. Olivier NAMECHE

    Olivier NAMECHE F1 Rookie

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    Simpen,

    I will not follow you on the matter to agree or to disagree on biaised stories, either coming from SK or any body else either.

    If we do our homework correctly, and we are many to do it overhere for many years, there is no need to alter history, just report the truth, there is no need to biaise.

    As you both (with Joe) lead the topic on a specific Miura SV, I would have preferred to read : " probably one of the very last 1st owner Miura SV still around ".

    And about SK, like many we've nothing against him, for years he was offering Lamborghini without romancing the stories, and we were all very happy of his success, but it is a fact that for the last months, we all have noticed some kind of differences in his labelling...
     
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  19. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
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    Simpen, no pissing contest whatsoever, my posts are factual & informative as always, the same regardless of who or what I'm discussing.

    Meanwhile my thoughts on this topic are already made in my posts above, and I'm happy to leave it at that as you suggest.

    Very true, in fact I'm happy for the success of anyone who can sell any Miura anywhere.

    Olivier heres a Miura you'll appreciate.

    It belongs to my auto designer neighbor who occasionally swings by with it to tease me, this is 3598, utterly original and beautiful, first paint, original interior, well-serviced, all the components on the car are the same ones the artisans put on it at Sant Agata in 1968.

    And yes, it only has just over 4,000 miles!

    New to the USA via Jake Kaplan's Lamborghini East (before Ferruccio terminated him) at 464 Broad Street, Providence, Rhode Island 02907, it arrived by ocean via Boston, Massachusetts. The sticker price was $19,700 plus state taxes. Sent to R.B. Harmon in North canton, Ohio.

    This Miura did not have a special first owner.

    It has no special history.

    It has never needed to be rescued from a barn.

    It's never needed to be restored.

    It is not a first or last of anything.

    It is not claimed as best of anything.

    That said, it is a special Miura simply because of how well it's been looked after.

    BTW - in case anyone is curious, it's not for sale.

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  20. miurasv

    miurasv Formula 3

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    #19518 miurasv, Jan 4, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2021
    3598.

    Joe, Speedo is in mph not km/h. Still a very low indicated mileage of course. How many owners?
     
  21. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Apologies, yes I evidently meant to say just over 6,000 miles as the speedo shows, sorry I've got a certain SV on my mind!

    As a USA supplied car it has the miles speedo, very low miles for a 52-year old car, although he does take it for short runs regularly.

    Two owners.

    Here below is another P400 with similarly low miles, this Eu delivered Miura has the speedo in kilometers, this is 3150.

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  22. miurasv

    miurasv Formula 3

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    I see. Hasn't 3150 been restored a few times? If so do you think mileage indicated is true? 2nd time around?
     
  23. mt_jt

    mt_jt Formula Junior

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    That blue P400 looks amazing, inside and out. One of the nicest looking early Miura's I’ve seen, I love it’s cool patina.
     
  24. Olivier NAMECHE

    Olivier NAMECHE F1 Rookie

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    Yes I do, thanks...
     
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  25. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Repainted once many years ago, then fully restored once, mileage is true as corroborated by incremental increases on record over the years.
     
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  26. Robert W

    Robert W Formula Junior

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