Miura, the original supercar | Page 764 | LamborghiniChat
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Miura, the original supercar

Discussion in 'Lamborghini Supercars' started by joe sackey, Dec 5, 2006.

  1. vfinaldi

    vfinaldi Formula Junior

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    The SVR also impressed this Brit, who I have been told :D apparently has just a little bit of engineering experience and gravitas. Mr. Murray spent ten minutes with the car at Pebble Beach, scrutinizing its characteristics and speaking with Mr. Cairati about the restoration, and firmly stated he was impressed. That’s pretty good in my book.:p Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  2. bb4635

    bb4635 Formula Junior

    May 18, 2006
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    Hi Steven,
    Just imagine one moment that the SVR, as we know it, was in fact not based on a Miura S (not car #283) but on a genuine Factory SV chassis, not to say more...
    In case you, at least, had a close look to the chassis details of this 'SVR' - claimed being chassis #3781 - with a skilled Miura expert eye, you will easily understand and conclude that it was - technically speaking - based on a factory SV chassis.
    And concerning the mention of Porsche 917 brakes, yes - it could be fine for 'the legend' - but physivcally, the basic Girling calipers - Miura standard - I've always seen fitted on the car seem to modestly do the job, even without any Porsche stickers on them.
    I'd be very pleased - and curious - to see any period or recent pictures of these famous 917 brakes fitted on #3781... We can ever learn more every day when it's about Miura history...
     
  3. bb4635

    bb4635 Formula Junior

    May 18, 2006
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    Hi Lemacc,
    In case you had a studious reading of the impressive recently released Kidston's Miura book you would have understood, in Chapter 12, that this Miura raced by Mr Gallo in march 1969 at the Trofeo dalla Vecchia, at the Vallelunga circuit, is a P400, chassis #3120.
     
  4. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ

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    I've always been a fan of the SVR, it's clearly a step up from an SV or SVJ in terms of performance specification, and IMHO I think it is likely a better car than the original Jota.
     
  5. miurasv

    miurasv Formula 3

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    #19080 miurasv, Sep 15, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
    My comments had nothing to do with the Cairati restoration of 3781, but regarding the modifications when the car was originally converted from P400S into the SVR, which were limited by the absence of engineering work to support the mods resulting in what was basically just a lookalike Jota.
     
  6. miurasv

    miurasv Formula 3

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    I spoke to Ing. Claudio Zampolli about 3781 and sent him pictures of the car including the chassis when he confirmed that it is not even close to the original Jota mechanically.
     
  7. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Agreed it is very different, the Jota was a built-from-scratch car with unique chassis, side tanks and Avional panels, clearly a very special stand-alone car.

    What I'm suggesting is, currently, the SVR is likely a better performer than the 1970 Jota was.
     
  8. Lemacc

    Lemacc Formula 3
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    Mar 16, 2008
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    IMO you cannot compare both cars. As you already stated, the original purpose of the JOTA was pure racing, the SVR from Heinz Steber was based on a regular chassis and tuned &modified to look like a JOTA.
     
  9. raymondQV

    raymondQV F1 Rookie

    Aug 22, 2007
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    I think the last sentence goes a little bit too short, when you listen to Heinz Stebers explanations it goes far beyond than just a lookalike Jota. It went that far that he was even not able to register the car anymore in Germany.
     
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  10. vfinaldi

    vfinaldi Formula Junior

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    SVR on the 2019 Pebble Beach Tour d' Elegance. View from inside the cockpit while on Pacific Coast Highway driving from Carmel to Big Sur. Enjoy!
     
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  11. Lambocars666

    Lambocars666 Formula Junior

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    #19086 Lambocars666, Sep 16, 2020 at 4:04 PM
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020 at 5:07 PM
    By the way...
    The Miura SVR was built from a factory 1972 Miura SVJ. And the number #3781 is a fake VIN to avoid paying VAT twice when the original owner crashed his P400S and got that SVJ... keeping VIN, papers and license plates.
    Voilà ! I know it was forbidden, but for God's sake, if not the owners nor the restorers nor the factory to speak the truth out, well... I do!
     
  12. vfinaldi

    vfinaldi Formula Junior

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    Wow, that is an amazing bit of information. Imagining that it was built from a factory SVJ is mind blowing! Do you know the chassis # of the 1972 SVJ?
     
  13. Lambocars666

    Lambocars666 Formula Junior

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    When great enthusiasts like De La Rive Box, Marchet, Nichols, Coltrin... came to visit the factory back in the days to get some information about that crazy road and track bomb recently destroyed, the one and only Lambo-Wallace Jota... Some people there had a look at the factory lists to find the answer :

    Line 747: P400SV / #5084 / Rosso Corsa - Nero / 28.06.1972 / 07.08.1972 / Interauto Brescia / Jota
    "Oh that must be it! Same color, same dealer, and Jota written in the margin! This is definitely the Jota!"


    And that is how a legend killed another legend.
    As a matter of fact, the Jota was crashed on April 28th 1971 and it had VIN #4683.
     
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  14. miurasv

    miurasv Formula 3

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    Hi,

    Okay, so it does not even have Porsche 917 calipers either. The thing is the chassis on the SVR with number 3781 is not a P400SV chassis but a P400S chassis.
     
  15. vfinaldi

    vfinaldi Formula Junior

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    So, you are saying it was built from the wreckage of the :eek: original Jota chassis? Mind blown...
     
  16. miurasv

    miurasv Formula 3

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    #19091 miurasv, Sep 16, 2020 at 5:16 PM
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020 at 5:31 PM
    As SVR #3781 has a P400S chassis, not a P400SV chassis, this is not possible.
     
  17. Lambocars666

    Lambocars666 Formula Junior

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    #19092 Lambocars666, Sep 16, 2020 at 5:22 PM
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020 at 7:55 PM
    The chassis, interior, body, engine... These were SVJ type before the SVR modifications.
    The original body of P400S #3781 is now on another Frankenstein Miura somewhere in Italy.

    Here's 5084/3781
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    And I wrote 4 6 8 3 ;)
     
  18. miurasv

    miurasv Formula 3

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    You did. My apologies.
     
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  19. vfinaldi

    vfinaldi Formula Junior

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    I have heard this before, from two different very credible sources. Thanks for the information.
     
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  20. Lambocars666

    Lambocars666 Formula Junior

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  21. miurasv

    miurasv Formula 3

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    #19096 miurasv, Sep 16, 2020 at 5:45 PM
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020 at 6:03 PM
    You said the SVR was based on a 1972 Factory SVJ, and I replied that it was not possible as the chassis on the SVR is P400S, not SV. If the SVR with number 3781 is based on a Factory 1972 SVJ it would have a full SV chassis, not a partial P400S chassis.

    Steber also said that they split the sump during the conversion which is something they would not have had to have done to chassis 5084, a late chassis number, that would have already had a split sump.

    It has also been reported and previously posted in this thread with pictures by Joe I think, and on www.miuraregister.com, that Steber bought 3781 with SVJ body mods and was then converted to SVR.
     
  22. Lambocars666

    Lambocars666 Formula Junior

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    #19097 Lambocars666, Sep 16, 2020 at 6:03 PM
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020 at 7:39 PM
    Yes, that's what I said. SVJ when new, then modified to SVR spec.

    Also, I get your point regarding the chassis and agree on the inconsistency.

    The tricky question is:
    What is -at least- a car? And also what is -at most- a car?

    SV chassis + SV wheels + SVJ engine + SVJ body + SVJ interior + P400S VIN
    Well, it still is a factory 1972 SVJ to me.

    From the original #3781, only the VIN tag 3781 is on the SVR.
    The original body of #3781 (or what's left of it) is now on another Miura.
    To me #3781 is dead.
    Most of the SVR's origin is SVJ #5084. But yes, with P400S VIN 3781 messing the story up.


    Funny thing about the SVJ's, none of them are exactly the same...

    Here's SVJ #5113... rebuilt from SV #4910!
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  23. Lambocars666

    Lambocars666 Formula Junior

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    #19098 Lambocars666, Sep 16, 2020 at 6:39 PM
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020 at 7:53 PM
    NOOOOoooo
    Some people thought VIN #5084 was the VIN of the Wallace Jota when checking the production lists during the 1970s. This mistake still lives on nowadays...
    And since the SVJ 5084 got an earlier VIN #3781 for obscure reasons, the entire story of both cars is f**ked up. That's why I wrote "a legend killed another legend".

    Once again:
    _ The Jota was #4683 but in the common knowledge was known to have VIN #5084 (incorrect) because of confusing similarities when reading the archives.
    _ The SVR was the SVJ #5084 but keeps the VIN #3781 though 99.9% of the car has nothing to do with #3781.
    _ The P400S #3781 is dead. The chassis, interior and engine are lost. The body, however survives now on another Miura.
     
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  24. vfinaldi

    vfinaldi Formula Junior

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    Wow, thanks for the clarification. This is very interesting.
     
  25. miurasv

    miurasv Formula 3

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    #19100 miurasv, Sep 16, 2020 at 7:15 PM
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020 at 8:00 PM
    Please can you clarify exactly why you say the SVR has a partial S and SV chassis and a significant part of the 3781 chassis.
     

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