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Diablo LIE

Discussion in 'Lamborghini Supercars' started by mikael82, May 3, 2019.

  1. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior
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    We have being talking about this in that other forum for while and thought it might bring some info to here as well:

    Lamborghini LIE - made by Campi
    It is basic old school engine management that comes few different versions.
    You find it befind right side seat, there are two stacked together and are removable with 10mm nuts.

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    After you remove top and lower casing you see this:
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    and other side:
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    (continue soon...)
     
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  2. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior
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    Both LIE's are connected with 35 pin sockets (we get to this later in more depth) here is what they are:

    1 Earth
    2 Lambda sensor output signal
    3 Lambda probe shield
    4 Engine speed and TDC sensor output
    5 Injector relay control
    6 Permanent feed to ECU
    7 "Check engine" light
    8 Insulation (console)
    9 fuel vapor canister valve
    10 Insulation (console)
    11
    12 Auxiliary air valve heater
    13 Insulation
    14 Insulation
    15 MAP sensor
    16 6 or 12 injector
    17 TPS output signal
    18 3 or 9 injector
    19 Earth
    20 Key "on" signal
    21 Insulation
    22
    23 Phase sensor output signal
    24 Engine speed and TDC sensor
    25 Ignition module control signal
    26 Rev counter control signal
    27 Insulation (console)
    28 Fuel pump relay control
    29 Coolant temperature (NTC)
    30 MAP sensor and TPS sensor feed
    31 Air temperature sensor (NTC)
    32 4 or 10 injector
    33 2 or 8 injector
    34 5 or 11 injector
    35 1 or 7 injector
     
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  3. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior
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    #3 mikael82, May 3, 2019
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
    This day we know there are three versions of these LIE's, and those are seperated with few markings:

    Behind LIE board there are "C5.7 -4" written on board above, for long time many thought that would mean "5.7 - liter 4 valve engine" but this is not a case...

    Here is very early LIE that actually read "C5.7 - 3" so this this third version of Diablo LIE.
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    You can see from those wires that it is in proses... but these are the ones they installed to very early Diablo's
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  4. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior
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    Two later versions are:

    "W87 5.7 - 4"
    And
    "W93 5.7 - 4"

    W87 means 1987 when these LIE's where first desing
    W93 means 1993 when second second generation of LIE's came to be installed to cars.
    Difference with them are explaned in factory "technical information number 52" and you see it also written (sometimes hand written) to EPROM memory chip on board itself, (we continue this later)

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    It states that "yellow dot" outside of LIE casing is to seperated W87 and W93, like this:
    My car got W93 so, it got "yellow dot"
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    Here is one without "yellow dot" making it W87
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  5. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior
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    Other differences mentioned on document above is that "W93 5.7 - 4" -LIE got 250ohm resistor soldered for clearer "fatter" command for ignitionmodule and spark, you can see that one soldered behind board with orange insulator around wire and basicly that is only difference between later "5.7 - 4" boards.

    [​IMG]

    More interesting part is that earlier LIE's do not store error codes and light goes off after two minutes. Btw, because light goes out of sight, it does not mean your car is "ok" this time I do not see it is nessesery to go through how you actually read codes, (but if some one needs it I can write it here?)
     
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  6. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior
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    On document above there is also written that there are only three different kind LIE's on production, remember this was in 1992, but there are no seperate units to Sweden or Switzerland, but all those will use USA model LIE's
    For my part interesting is that with marked "Pb" for leadded fuel use, becuse I got one...
    "Pb" LIE's do not need lambda sensors to operate and if you use leaded fuel, they can not because lead is metal and do not work with lambda sensors, so that is why each and every one of LIE's got small hole on front and you can stick screwdriwer through there and adjust manually fuel mapping, BUT it does not work if you do not have "Pb" data inside LIE. For all others this potentiometer does nothing and this lead me to an idea; If all got it does this mean all LIE's are actually identical?
     
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  7. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior
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    #7 mikael82, May 3, 2019
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
    Yes, all LIE's are identical, but data stored in EPROM chip changes and that is this is what identify each LIE for market area it is sold. And after little bit of work cryptic code written on eprom chips started to open:

    My leded fuel eprom reads: K93T MC01T
    Meaning it is for lates W93 LIE, but because of leaded fuel it got letter "K"
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    USA, possible "SV" eprom reads: W93T MD01S (picture is upside down because sticker is wrong way)
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    2wd EU eprom is: W87T MC01S
    This is where W87 comes here and it means this is for early version. It is also clear that MC01S is for European market
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    Here is similar W93T MC01S, what means this car is EU -model and 1992 or newer.
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    MC01S is what designates car to market area that sometimes they did not even write what version only "EU"
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    Very early eprom chips are odd, this is M900S and I can't find logic about it (but more of this later.)
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  8. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior
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    Some might notice that these eprom chips are not even soldered in and you can remove them and change them and chip data can be what ever you like (with small restrictions)
    I took my chips and whent to my local speed shop and they burned me couple of chips and I run my car with them.
    Even better, you can copy and send this data with email and you can run your car with other type of data; so I run my car now with copy of SV eproms.

    Important thing is:
    you should use same size EPROM they are, not tlarger in capacity, but they can be faster, but not slower.

    Original EPROMS are:
    AT27C256R-15DI

    I use 27C256-100 a bit faster but seems to work fine. (original is 150, I use 100)

    So from belly up you carefully lift these up and leg row in a time but them back.
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  9. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior
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    #9 mikael82, May 3, 2019
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
    if hardware is identical; how does software different?

    Because eprom reader/burner you can read actual data, but it is very confusing and not ment to be "read" but you can compare differencec between data.
    We where able to get this odd early "W87S M900S" read out and here is the difference between "W87S M900S" and regular EU -version "W93t MC01S"

    Surprisingly lot of difference, single mark or parts here and therer, I think something to do with that "engine error code" system difference, but base is similar.
    Those numbers in row are what affects mapping, I think they are advance or injector timing, but you can't really know from code.

    Rest of it difference some prosessor work difference. (not attached to this picture)
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    We (me and couple of fellow owners) got 1990-1992 EU -version "W93T MC01S" eprom read open and this is difference between "W87 MC01S" and later 1992 - 1997 "W93S MC01S" data; only difference between those two are those few lines and NOTHING ELSE, even prosessor data is identical, they are almost similar. I think that is spark advance and injector timing.
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    From this point I can be sure that you can use upgraded "yellow dot" W93 5.7-4 and early W87 5.7-4 circuit board eprom data accross and swap those as you like. W87S data here is actually from "Yellow dot" 1992 - 1997 LIE, that got older style eprom memory installed newer upgraded LIE box from factory. Because of that it would mean that in factory they installed these eproms to those ECU's and they are fine to run.


    But what is really interesting is this:
    Difference between both W87 versions:

    W87 M900S vs. W87 MC01S
    From those same lines that only make difference between two above, they are identical between M900S and MC01S, but... all other data got huge amount difference, because that upgraded error data save that was added later.

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    So what does this mean?

    As far as we know there are no special early cars that got higher output from rest of the cars, untill someone copies their eprom and we know better, but I suspect this M900S eprom data on 5.7-3 circuitboard is so early, that hardly there are more older one around, again; until we know better...

    What we would now need is:

    Someone with USA -version to copy their EPROM and send copy of BIN -file to here so we can compare EU -version data and US data together, because these all are EU versions.

    There still is this possibility;
    that EU -version W87 MC01S is the "go fast" -version of all data available for Diablo, it seems like that right now. I would suspect those couple of lines are what makes the difference.

    Needles to say; I have all those BIN -files above.
    (Edit I suspect Ferrari 288 GTO and F40 uses much similar engine managment so those with F40's or 288's might also find this writing interesting. )
     
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  10. Peter K.

    Peter K. F1 Rookie

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    Wow! Fantastic information.
     
  11. Jalpa_Mike

    Jalpa_Mike Formula 3
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    Great stuff! Thanks so much! Its fantastic to have all the electrics mapped out for the Countach and now the Diablo!!

    Mike
     
  12. TSS

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    Jul 2, 2004
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    Mikael you are doing great work, that was a very interesting read.
     

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