Countach, the ultimate supercar | Page 1111 | LamborghiniChat
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Countach, the ultimate supercar

Discussion in 'Lamborghini Supercars' started by joe sackey, Aug 21, 2007.

  1. You'll be proud of me, I didn't even click on it!
     
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  3. Fantastic picture sent by the Canadian owner of Countach Quattrovalvole Iniezione JLA12359. Still original Bianco/Bianco, left factory in Sant Agata on 27 March 1988 heading for Lamborghini Canada Inc. This Countach will be for sale on Bring a Trailer Auction very soon! Dreams can come true…car updated with more great pics & info @ www.countach-register.com
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  4. Looks like a very pretty car.. hope it stays in North America
     
  5. On April 4, 1985, I bought the fantastic Countach book by Jeremy Coulter. I remember I was flabbergasted by the Incredible sharp pictures! In the book this white with red interior 5000 S is claimed to be an brand new car pictured at Sant Agata ready to be delivered. Not correct…this car is obviously a very early 5000 S, already registered on plates, and a dealer sticker on the rear. After doing some research, I came to the conclusion that this must be number CLA12492. That car is in Bulgaria these days. I wonder if the current owner knows his car is world famous Image Unavailable, Please Login This is another car updated on www.countach-register.com, please check it out! Ciao! Marcello
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  7. The 400S seems to have a non matching motor. Any views from anyone here on what impact that has on value?
    Thanks
     
  8. #27757 joe sackey, Oct 25, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2021
    Are you looking to buy an LP400S?

    If so there are some great cars available privately which are not advertised.
     
  9. #27758 raymondQV, Oct 26, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2021
    It has an impact but how huge is not clear, it looks like the engines of 1198 and 1296 got exchanged, since both were in Switzerland and shared the same "famous" service person - the one who supercharged 1198. Make your own minds what might have happened during this supercharging conversion...
    Impossible that this came from the factory
    1198: #249, 1.8.1980
    1296: #298, 7.4.1981
    This particular Countach was delivered new to Switzerland just as you see it today, finished in red over a beige leather interior. Its most recent previous owner acquired the car from its second owner in 2005. Aside from an engine overhaul undertaken by the first owner, which was completed by a Swiss Lamborghini specialist, the Countach reportedly remains in largely unrestored and original condition throughout. Driven approximately 5,000 km with that owner over the course of a 10-year period, the car was regularly serviced during this time by an official Lamborghini distributor. Invoice copies for the engine rebuild and service work are on file.

    From the 2015 Auction where Guikas bought 1296:
    Aside from an engine overhaul undertaken by the first owner, who enlisted a noted Lamborghini specialist in Switzerland, it remains in largely unrestored and original condition.

    BTW it has a non origial ignition, most likely installed by the same specialist, he was famous for his supercharging and injection conversions.
     
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  10. Thanks Raymond, that is informative and I appreciate your thoughts.
     
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  12. Spoke to the chap who’s father in law brought the car. The 5000s in pieces at auction.

    The car is off to Italy for Valentino , his crew and Top Motors to do the work.

    Keep it black on black or????.

    Tough decision

    R
     
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  13. If I was specifying any colours it would be tahiti blue with white interior ....
     
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  14. Easy decision, these are getting too valuable to mess with their heritage and start changing colors IMO.
     
  15. OTH the car is completely apart. If there was a factory (I would not stray past that) color that has been on your mind for years, I'd go with it. Take Tahiti with a white interior. What a combo.
     
  16. If there ever was an excuse to dodge the original color combo,not feeling like a total dusch, this could possibly be your chance. abandoned car in boxes for years,by somebody else, stripped and dismantled , i say ,go for it. pick your dream combo,
     
  17. I personally would not want to continuously explain my Countach non originality when I had the chance do it right. The original way that it was intended in its original color combination from the factory.
     
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  18. I'll give you my take. I have said in the past the phase we all heard before: his car, his money (her car, her money / them car, them money or whatever....)

    But my actual feeling is....stop being selfish. It is simply selfish to paint another color when you have the opportunity to go original. The owners are making it about themselves and what THEY want. The sad part about that is their ownership is usually short lived, leaving the burden on the next owners. They are stuck spending an enormous amount of money for someone else selfishness.

    I have 3 Lamborghinis.
    I able to be selfish with the Countach.
    I look at my red Urraco and say "you're going green when I am ready". I look at my black Jarama and say "don't laugh, you may go back to green before your little brother, but you're going back to green".
    Thankfully, they are each 2 different shades of green :)
     
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  19. I can add that besides the fact that original is a nod of respect to the original artisans, it's also not a particularly great financial decision nowadays to go non-original, this later point becoming more important as values rise.
     
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  20. My opinion is a little different. I'm totally ok with colour changes both interior and exterior provided that the colours chosen were available in period. This way you are staying true to the manufacturer but are merely adjusting the livery to a preference you 'could' have ordered had you been in the dealership specing out a car when it was new. All of this talk of respecting the original artisans is a little silly in my opinion as the artisans only did what the original owner ordered. By changing the colour you are not changing the very essence of the car and colour changes are part of the rich history of these vehicles.

    Regarding values, theoretically original colours should bring the highest prices. Owners and sellers LOVE to throw the word 'original' around but there is a big difference between original finish and original colour. Once a car has been re-painted it is no longer original and many markets including Lamborghini, Ferrari, even Mercedes do not place any real tangible premiums on original colour (although they do on period colour) despite the theory to the contrary. These cars are sufficiently rare that the ability to get one that has been well restored and cared for generally trumps any premium on original colour. Time capsule truly original cars play by totally different rules and have no place as benchmarks in this discussion.

    In other markets like the American muscle car market then original colour is critically important and you can decimate the value of a car by changing its paint. As said the European car market is a little different (rare exceptions aside) and if you are restoring a car for your personal use, to have and enjoy rather than quickly flip, then you should finish it in any colour you like.

    Life's too short to care about what other people think or the next guy who will own it.
     
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  21. well said , i totally agree with you reg the fact of sticking to a color wich was avail ,when the car was new, Spoke to Bruce Canepa a while back when he was selling the (Canepa green) qv fi , i questioned the color change, he told me they even did this on a few 959 Porsches, each on their own, as you said,new paint ,different materials ,stripped down to bare metal, stick to the original avail colors,or as in Canepas car,something period correct,iow House of colors pearl orange,on a 1982 5000s,would be a terrible mistake.
     
  22. You may be right that original color does not command a premium per se, but I can tell you from my experience operating in the market that color-changed cars bring tangibly less as far as Ferrari & Lamborghini are concerned, the latter speaking of the Countach for example.
     
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  23. No doubt people assume, color change = future color change.
     
  24. #27772 joe sackey, Nov 2, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2021
    In the quiet of the evening, deals done and dogs settled I have time for a more complete response.

    The notion that the original artisan's work should be respected isn't silly at all, and here's why.

    The maker was retained to build the car to a certain specification and specific livery using said artisans, and that original specification & livery is a historical fact that matters and can't just be dismissed for the sake of convenience. After all, customers did not order a car from Lamborghini with the order form's paint & leather request section filled in: "Surprise me"! A specific result was desired & created as a collaboration between artisans and owner and as surely as the fact that Lamborghini is a carmaker in Italy matters, the facts of the artisan's original work matter.
    I have spoken to original makers from Lamborghini who were thrilled to learn their cars are being restored to the same livery they had originally built and delivered them, ex-Lamborghini CEO Patrick Mimran and Valentino Balboni just to mention the 2 most prominent ones, having received their sentiments I'm not too quick to dismiss the respect the original makers should be given.

    The production spec of the car was the production spec, you can't change history. All this talk of "it could have been this color" is what's a little silly, after all it's pure fantasy, these cars as built are tangible quantifiable works of automotive art, what happened is what happened and it really matters, this why we now have serious Registries, and the factory itself has Polo Storico, and as with with all forms of history, I think we should respect past events rather than play pretend with colors and make color-changes for selfish reasons, as Peter points out. I really think these cars are too valuable for that, if one wants to express one's automotive creativity, there are cheaper cars one can buy, there is a reason why Hot Rods exist.

    We are mere mortals and caretakers of these cars, meanwhile, it's a guarantee that we'll all pass on that they will all be sold at some point, sometimes sooner than expected for a never-ending list of circumstantial reasons. With that in mind and because of the specialness of these cars, it makes sense to preserve them for posterity in original guise for the next owner, who might be a family member or a complete stranger wondering why your automotive legacy to them was a color-change that only you liked, with the obvious question to be repeated forever: "why on earth did he waste the restoration opportunity with a non-original color?" At least they'll console themselves with the fact that they paid less for it, which leads me to another guarantee I have to offer, it's that all the color-change cars will make their way back to original livery at some point, which underscores the way we should be thinking in terms of preserving these cars.

    There is no disputing that any automotive art (I think the Countach easily qualifies at this point) or in fact anything considered an art form is in it's most valuable form existing faithful to it's original creation, and I can give you many sales-sourced value data points to prove this where Countachs are concerned. This applies to both original unrestored and restored cars, take my word for it, I do this stuff for a living.
    To illustrate the point with art, you don't see anyone buying one buying art then after musing over it with their wife say: "Honey, I think I'm going to change the background color on the Picasso from blue to green!" As far as Im concerned I feel the same way about the Countach, @ 2,000 limited works, all different, fun fact, they're a lot rarer than a Picasso painting, he did 13,500 of them... either way don't mess with them.

    This concept bandied about by some that life is short is just that, a concept, not shared by many, certainly not by me, because at this point in the universe we are actually blessed by the greatest human longevity to date, in fact for some people life can be too long. Either way, what matters is how well you use your time, and I suggest one doesn't use it carrying out too many Lamborghini color-changes. I did that just once in my misspent youth, I was selfish and I lived to regret it, the car (a Miura SV) was stunning, I kept it for 3 years and didn't foresee ever selling, but one fine day I saw something I wanted more (an F40), and guess what? Turns out my color-change was a bonehead move because my color-changed car brought significantly less than a similar original color car. That'll happen every time. Thankfully, life has been long enough for me to learn from that mistake, and have lots of opportunities to not repeat it, and I'm grateful for that. IMO the Life's Too Short To Care About What Other People Think mantra is actually the height of selfishness if adopted as a general principle, just think about that and all the implications for a minute. Considering these assets are aspired to by many but actually attained by a very fortunate few, as lucky custodians and chosen keepers of the faith, we should care what others think, how lucky are we to be the custodian of a Countach! That's the type of thinking makes the right decision easy.

    Same thing really.

    The Canepa Fuelie has nothing Lamborghini period-correct about it's livery, it's essentially a Customized Countach, down to the deleted turn-signal lenses in the fenders and custom engine bay work which isn't period-correct for any period of Countach. The Canepa paint is a very dark almost black non-metallic green which was never used by Lamborghini on a Countach QV, and the interior features a customized non-period alcantara combo-color dash with white carpeting, incorrect for any period of Countach. His color-changed 959s only underscore the point that amongst other things Canepa specializes in Custom Creations.
     
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  25. The one-and-only Arancio 25th finally has a new owner.
     

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