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Countach, the ultimate supercar

Discussion in 'Lamborghini Supercars' started by joe sackey, Aug 21, 2007.

  1. Olivier NAMECHE

    Olivier NAMECHE F1 Rookie

    Aug 18, 2007
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  2. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 Formula Junior

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    The overall market for exotic, vintage and collectors cars is way down. I don’t understand it, but it is. It isn’t just the middle market. When a 250 GTO sells for $18-20 million less than one did just a couple years ago, everything is getting it. With the US economy churning along, it’s difficult to understand.
     
  3. Olivier NAMECHE

    Olivier NAMECHE F1 Rookie

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    and which 250 GTO sold for that less ?

    not #4153 apparently => https://autoweek.com/article/rumormill/70-million-plus-sale-ferrari-250-gto-most-expensive-car-world-again
     
  4. SupercarGuru

    SupercarGuru Formula Junior
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    We were bidding on LP400 S 1121078. The car has been heavily modified over the years, it needs a lot of work to make it factory correct, but I think it represents a very cool example of a great color LP400 S once restored. Still negotiating with RM, let's see where the final number ends up!
     
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  5. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 Formula Junior

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  6. SupercarGuru

    SupercarGuru Formula Junior
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    Considering the recent success of the Bonhams Bonmont and RM London sale, I think the recent Abu Dhabi sale was a mistake on RM's part. Many of the cars should have sold, instead they did not, due to unrealistic reserves set by sellers.

    Great example is the 2001 Diablo 6.0 SE in Marrone. It sold 2 years ago at RM Sotheby's for $400k +/-. At Abu Dhabi it reached a high bid of $475,000 (plus fees at over $520,000,) which I believe this is all the money for this example.

    As a reference I sold a similar 1,200 mile 2001 Diablo 6.0 SE in Marrone for $365,000 last year, and could easily sell the car again today between $350,000-420,000.

    Maserati MC12 for over $2,650,000 with fees? This should have sold as well.

    In addition, I am finding that many of todays significant collector cars are staying in the USA or being purchased by USA based collectors.

    I don't know many major USA collectors who traveled to Abu Dhabi during Thanksgiving weekend, and were even available by phone.

    We can all agree that the market has slightly pulled back, but good cars and at realistic numbers, sell.
     
  7. Olivier NAMECHE

    Olivier NAMECHE F1 Rookie

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  8. cnpapa24

    cnpapa24 Formula Junior
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    it is generally down for most cars. Some still maintaining or increasing in value. Great cars are still selling if priced correctly. Many factors at play including currencies rates of Euro and Pound, Brexit, overall economy in EU, election year in US, strong stock market, and perception of an expected recession in the near future. I actually think the market is doing quite well all things considered. Many cars have over corrected so that may be an opportunity for cars that were previously overpriced / overhyped.
     
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  9. SupercarGuru

    SupercarGuru Formula Junior
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    Perfect summary of the current market! Amen.
     
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  10. cnpapa24

    cnpapa24 Formula Junior
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    John, you seem to really have your finger on the pulse. I agree with all of the above. Of the cars that didn’t sell at this auction, the high bids seemed unrealistic.

    I would not bid at this auction unless it was a car I simply couldn’t find elsewhere. The reason being shipping logistics just seem to complicated.

    Your dealership is doing some great work and uncovering some fantastic cars. Keep it up!
     
  11. cnpapa24

    cnpapa24 Formula Junior
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    One car whose price surprised me was the Zagato Raptor. I guess a one off has its benefits. :)
     
  12. SupercarGuru

    SupercarGuru Formula Junior
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    Thank you so much for the kind words!!
     
  13. geno berns

    geno berns Formula Junior
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    John you mean to the Miura carbs did nothing to the car’s desirability, lol? It’s hard to know what the true high bid is on any of the unsold cars when the auction bids up the cars as they choose to the reserve.
     
  14. raymondQV

    raymondQV F1 Rookie

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    #26489 raymondQV, Dec 1, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
    1078 had also special wheels, the modification were done/ordered by the same person who had his Miura strongly modified everybody admires - recently restored in Polo Storico...

    When we inspected the car 2001 it was standing in the rain, drops coming through the windows, on the floor the water was already 1cm high.

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  15. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Interesting market comments.

    As someone in the market full-time here’s my take:

    Whenever we are asked to sell Miuras & Countachs, we do so quickly and for equal or increasing amounts, which underscores the state of our market.

    The sky is not falling, the market correction actually happened 1-2 years ago, and meanwhile in this past year, great examples of the Supercars we love (certain variants of Miura & Countach) are actually increasing in value, albeit at a slower pace.

    I also should say it pays to not worship at the altar of auction numbers as a means of determining the value of cars, and I recommend that those who do, reconsider this method. Auction results are not gospel when it comes to market valuations. Auctions are flawed because their high-bid numbers can be manipulated by the auctioneers, they are often adversely affected by venue, promotion, participation and content. You can see how the aforementioned can compromise numbers. Add to all that, generally, many of the best cars don’t ever come to auction, for the simple reason that they don’t need to. They sell by other means.

    Sales numbers from deals done by authorized and independent dealerships, and those completed by independent specialists are often a better guide for current values IMO for innumerable reasons.
     
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  16. Lemacc

    Lemacc Formula 3
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    The mileage on 1121078 is not right anymore. Someone clocked it backwards...
     
  17. Peter K.

    Peter K. F1 Rookie

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    This is all that is important. A slower pace is a gift.
     
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  18. sp1der

    sp1der Formula Junior
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    I think its quite a cool car, the first downdraft Countach - I guess there is probably a reasonable gain in HP like the Daytona to GTC/4 - same basic engine downdraft v side.
     
  19. derekfc

    derekfc Karting

    Oct 28, 2014
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    very interesting car. rm southerbys has it marked as sold for 305k. i like the uniqueness but originality is where the money is.
     
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  20. Robert W

    Robert W Formula Junior

    Mar 13, 2005
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    Er.. I totally disagree with your assessment of #3527 versus #4153. IIRC, #3527 was driven on road and track by Stephen Pilkington when he owned it and had a brilliant patina as a result, then when Irvine Laidlaw bought it, he had Moto Technique completely restore it. An early days accident would not affect the value of this Ferrari 250 GTO today when Stephen Pilkington’s treatment of the car and it’s subsequent restoration both happened after this and had more of an impact on its current condition.
     
  21. Olivier NAMECHE

    Olivier NAMECHE F1 Rookie

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    I'm confortable that you disagree , but what 250 GTO buyers are looking at today is a factory original body never modified or replaced following a crash, that's a reality and the 1st criteria asked…

    #3527 had a 1st life before Pilkington owned it… Who ever has restored the car, even Moto Technique… will not change that… even Ferrari Classiche !

    For sure any early accident is affecting the value of 250 GTO, because of confidentiality as I signed a NCNDA, I can't reveal you for which GTO I was involved with, but this selection criteria was the Number 1 on the list of our buyer.
     
  22. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Interesting.

    Indeed.

    Unofficially.
     
  23. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Rookie

    Feb 23, 2006
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    the S1 has so many wrong parts ... where should we start?
    carbs, airboxes, bonnet, wheels, steering wheel, side skirts ...?

    and then i heard conditions are also ...
    i think this car should be considered a project and an expensive one
     
  24. Olivier NAMECHE

    Olivier NAMECHE F1 Rookie

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    Exactly….
     
  25. raymondQV

    raymondQV F1 Rookie

    Aug 22, 2007
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    Nobody is forced to buy this car, there were enough chances to buy it cheap in the last 17years before. Nobody is force to change the car, a potential new owner could keep/restore it in the same guise it was modified by the owner Heinz S.
    Interesting enough nobody wanted to convert his former Miura #3781 back to original... nor is someone talking about changing the Wolf Countachs into regular LP400.
     
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