Countach Downdraft | Page 571 | LamborghiniChat
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Countach Downdraft

Discussion in 'Lamborghini Supercars' started by joe sackey, Oct 25, 2015.

  1. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ

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    All noted, thank you guys.

    Ironically, the carburetor-engined Evoluzione was the most powerful factory Countach with 490 bhp per Chief Engineer Luigi Marmiroli, pushing just 980 kg, per Valentino Balboni and Marmiroli, it achieved just over 204 mph (330 kph) at Nardo, making it the both the fastest Countach ever and the first Lamborghini to exceed 200 mph.

    Alas, per Marmiroli, it was crash-tested to determine the strength of it's composite materials chassis.

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  3. geno berns

    geno berns Formula Junior
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    Great video. Wonder what track that is with those great turns?

    What’s that car worth? I assume it’s a one off?
     
  4. raymondQV

    raymondQV F1 Rookie

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    I still wonder after so many years why this engine still had the smog pump in place... but is rumored to have had 490bhp.
     
  5. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Perhaps it was disconnected, or removed prior to it's serious performance testing.

    The image I've posted above was given to me by Marmirolli himself from his archives, and it shows the car when it's constriction was freshly completed prior to testing. I have no doubt this unit had the 490 bhp Ing. Marmirolli says it did, this is widely reported, and the performance recorded at Nardo which was corroborated by multiple entities underscores this.
     
  6. raymondQV

    raymondQV F1 Rookie

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    Joe,
    of course you can bring the QV engine to 490bhp shifting the power band upwards, creating a composite frame but leaving several kilos of smog pump equipement in place is simply not consequent.
    BTW the electric clutch deconnects the pump above 2000rpm, but still you have that nonsense in place for nothing. The pump alone weights at least 5 Kilos, plus all the hoses and the injectors to the exhaust manifolds.
     
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  8. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ

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  9. qvpower

    qvpower Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2004
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    Yatabe test track. It was for sure a one off... watched it somewhere that it was originally bought new at 400 million yen= roughly 3 million USD during the peak of the car bubble back then.... That probably would make it the most expensive countach sold new from the factory. But Im curious why the customer would opt for fuel injection over downdraft on such an expensive car when clearly for the money they are spending they had the option to choose.... or what reason prompted the effort to replace the fuel injection over the original downdraft as shown on the development unfinished car... maybe emissions in Japan? Would indeed be interesting to document as part of that unique car's history.
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  10. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ

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  12. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Correct, emissions is the likely reason, in fact it's the only reason that a Countach was ever fitted with a Fuelie engine by the factory as we've discussed many times, I think this car was fitted with one simply because the L150 project was being wrapped up and the factory planned to sell it and wanted to ensure it's ability to be sold anywhere, not just Japan, but the USA also. You have to remember that Lamborghini made carbureted Countachs to the very last Countach 25th, which they kept.

    The L150 is the creative brainchild of Patrick Mimran when he was CEO of Lamborghini, and I spoke to him about it, and this is where I get the notion that more than one car was made in that guise, as I'll elaborate later. To say it is "for sure a one-off" is not proven, and as we have learned when researching Italian car factories of that era, multiples of concepts cars and prototypes were sometimes made only to be corroborated years later, and in this instance we have two distinct guises of the same car that lend credence to this, as you can see the L150 with fuel-injected engine is different from the one I reference which has different rear end with smooth exhaust valance and pronounced rear air diffusers and Downdraft engine. It's convenient to say the engine was changed and its the same car, but are we absolutely certain? That said, the L150 in Japan is possibly the only one of the Mimram Super Countach concept remaining as the factory tended to crash-test the cars which were not sold, such as the high-performing Evoluzione.

    I see no proof the car was sold by Automobili Lamborghini SpA for anything more than normal Countach prices when it was sold to Achilli Motors in the late 80s, typically the factory sold off prototypes as used inventory, sometimes for even less than new car prices. Any aftermarket high pricing of the era would have been gained by Achilli Motors, meanwhile I'd like to see an invoice for the actual price the car was sold to Japan for to corroborate the price it sold for, the peak of the car bubble was circa 1990, I was a Countach owner then and I vividly recall some fantastic prices for certain Lamborghinis and Ferraris, but even Miura SVs were less than half the number you are suggesting the L150 sold for, so I remain skeptical about the claim you're repeating.

    By the way, the letter you have shown confirms that the L150 was a cosmetic partial modification of the body, and it confirms that the chassis, mechanicals and engine are standard. Simpen was right a few posts ago when he said the L150 is often confused with the Evoluzione, Sgarzi does the same thing in his factory letter!

    Here below of the first concept rendering of Mimran's Super Countach idea, but then he sold the factory for reasons he has never spoken publicly about and which I'll elaborate on in a publication.

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  13. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Before Mimran sold the works, a limited run of these were planned, as you can see the concept has developed somewhat since the initial design rendering.

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  14. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ

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    This is an actual built car, different to the final L150 it has different rear end with smooth exhaust valance and pronounced rear air diffusers (which can clearly be seen from this profile) and Downdraft engine. Aerodynamic wheel covers have not yet been mounted.

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  15. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Here's a car with slightly different more square-shouldered air intakes without the graded sharks-gills intake flaps, its actually road-registered, looks to have the wiper attachment in the RHD position, has a completely different nose, and has no front fender side turn-signal light. Brunei?

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  16. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ

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    For sure the Downdraft-engined example was actually used on the road as a running car, here it is being factory-tested with distinctive prominent rear aero.

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  17. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ

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  18. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Here's an interesting image of what seems to be the L150 or another, IMO without an engine (you can see the rear sits high), with front side fender turn-signal lenses, seemingly behind the Sant Agata factory, Ive seen another magazine image (posted here) depicting this car or another in the famed Lamborghini parking lot of lore, inconclusive but interesting.

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  19. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ

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  20. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ

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  21. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 Formula 3

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    Joe - the one person I can think of who can likely shed light on your questions and put to rest any ambiguity is Valentino.
     
  22. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ

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    In the course of my working relationship with him, we've spoken many times about the L150, Evoluzione and other special Countachs, you have to remember that until recently, Valentino had no reason to keep track of these cars individually.

    I'm not that fussed one way or another but it is good to corroborate fact when you can instead of guessing or repeating the same story that has always been told.
     
  23. mrp_e

    mrp_e Karting

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    A Lamborghini that isn't driven is a waste of music and motion.
     
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  24. EarlyCat

    EarlyCat Moderator
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    Emission laws were a big witch hunt. Fines, multi repair bills for nothing. I still remember everything I had failing that was carbed. To get something to pass I would run the car, truck or bike almost empty. Buy a bunch of the chemical at autozone (called guaranteed to pass or something) retard the timing, lean the idle & set it as low as possible, new plugs, etc. Too hot & my Ducati would fail every time, and this was on US emission vehicles to start with.
     
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  25. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Thankfully, by virtue of timing & location I avoided all that drama.
     
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  26. GTAV6

    GTAV6 Karting

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    That registration plate looks very much like a New Zealand one (which would also tie in with the RHD aspect) - but I would be absolutely shocked if that was the case! Surely not...?

    If for some bizarre reason that is a New Zealand registration in that picture, it would put it somewhere in the early to mid 1990s.

    Actually, thinking about it, I wonder if the car might be a modified version of one of David Short's Countess replicas?
     
  27. dinonz308

    dinonz308 Karting
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    Not an NZ plate - in those days (and still today?) they are maximum 6 characters, and generally there was no space between the 2 letters and the digits as evident on this plate. Also, black lettering on a white reflectorized background started in 1986, beginning with "NA" plates, so SC would not have existed until many years later - but even so, no SC plate with 5 numbers would have existed because it exceeds the 6 character limit.
     
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