Countach brake caliper leaking at banjo | LamborghiniChat
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Countach brake caliper leaking at banjo

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Countachqv, Jun 15, 2020.

  1. Countachqv

    Countachqv Formula 3

    Apr 25, 2007
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    Got my brake hoses after many weeks. Figured a quick job to put back together NOT!
    The new caliper I got shows the banjo hole is somehow close to the edge and seems to cause a fluid leak no matter how tight I go. See pictures. copper washers are new too. Just cannot stop the leakage. Now am stuck. What do I do to stop the leak on the lip? It is not like I can go to auto part to get new calipers...


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  2. sp1der

    sp1der Formula Junior

    Jan 10, 2009
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    Simon Ashley
    Would suggest the sealing face has some damage i.e. not flat or scored, there is plenty of area for a washer to seal against, the breakthrough should not have an effect. The other option is to get some custom hoses, ditch the banjos and have a male tube nut straight into the caliper sealing on the cone.
     
  3. MiuraP400

    MiuraP400 Formula Junior
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    I see that caliper is set up for a flare fitting at the bottom. Is your hose bottoming out on that prior to contacting the copper washer? Did you anneal the copper washer? I am assuming the copper washer fits in the counter bore? If it does I would not expect that break out to be an issue. The wear on the surface indicates the counter bore may not be perpendicular to the threaded bore however I would expect the copper washer to seal it. But it is hard to tell in the photos so it may be worth a closer look.

    Also is your hose fitting contacting the top of the counter bore? I see some silver showing there in place of the gold indicating contact with the fitting. Any chance of photos with the hose threaded in the caliper? With and without the copper washer?

    Cheers Jim
     
  4. Countachqv

    Countachqv Formula 3

    Apr 25, 2007
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    #4 Countachqv, Jun 15, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
    thanks guy. I thought the flare was the issue. tried different position with banjo caliper off the rotor. No luck.
    I am going to take the hose off the car again and clean up the caliper and try on the bench with the banjo and hose and take some more picts. Both Caplipers are leaking.
    I have to say this is not the best mechanical break setup I have seen!! Never had issues like this for such a simple job. Never seen banjos setup like this in a place where everything is very tight! I supposed this setup is OEM?

    BTW the copper washers are:
    OD: 16mm ID: 12mm 1.5mm thick for the banjo bolt head washer
    OD: 16mm ID: 10mm 1.5mm thick for the caliper hole seal washer

    I had to use a 17mm OD for the bolt head washer but that is ok since it does not fit anything for outer size and the ID is 12mm
     
  5. Countachqv

    Countachqv Formula 3

    Apr 25, 2007
    1,380
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    did this on the bench. mounted the banjo in a flush position. see pictures. The fluid is seeping at the junction of the caliper and the banjo contact, mostly at the side facing us on the picture. Leak is significant. I took a few pictures of the new washer in place, the hole the banjo. Does it mount with some specific side on the caliper? does not look it. That caliper was never used from what I gather. It was old new stock.
     

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  6. MiuraP400

    MiuraP400 Formula Junior
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    Thanks for the photos. It's clear that is going to have a hard time sealing. The most elegant solution is to find a thicker copper washer to go between the banjo fitting and the caliper. Next choice would be to grind down the casting so the counter bore is shallower. You could stack two copper washers between the banjo fitting and the caliper but that is not ideal. Basically anything that will prevent the banjo fitting from hitting the caliper will work, the load path needs to be through the copper washers. Soft aluminum washers will also work if you can find some thick enough.

    Do you have the original washers? Are they thicker? You can reuse the original copper washers if you anneal them.

    Cheers Jim
     
  7. Countachqv

    Countachqv Formula 3

    Apr 25, 2007
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    thks Jim . The new washer is exactly as the old one. So there is a difference in the caliper itself. I'll have to find a thicker washer and try. these caliper are specifically for an e23 BMW. may be they were manufactured slightly differently?
     
  8. MiuraP400

    MiuraP400 Formula Junior
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    It appears to me that the counter bore is to deep. Hard to say whether it was made out of print, or the print was changed over time and the manufacturer did not take the Countach application into account, or if the Countach is actually a different part number.

    Cheers Jim
     
  9. Countachqv

    Countachqv Formula 3

    Apr 25, 2007
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    I finally finished this today. good eye Jim. I never had a part discrepancy like that before but again I don' do break that often. Indeed the new calipers required 2mm thick washers not the standard OEM 1mm that was there. Tried 1.5 mm but was still leaking.
    I could not find 2mm copper metric in that size in the US as it is non standard. Had to buy it from ebay in the UK !! lol. here the only shop would sell me in bulk..

    I guess I will get a spare set of front brakes now before any issues.. I wonder also where one can get the OEM banjos because I could not find the same OEM used. I guess the hose banjo setup could be replaced. anyway did not need that.

    thanks! that was a fullfilling inexpensive fix using new OEM calipers! Now I need to find a good shop to refurbish my old ones. The piston rubber were melting on both side and some was sticking on the pad thin protective plate.
     
  10. Countachqv

    Countachqv Formula 3

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  11. MiuraP400

    MiuraP400 Formula Junior
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    Glad to hear you got it working.

    Cheers Jim
     
  12. Countachqv

    Countachqv Formula 3

    Apr 25, 2007
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    Next to front calipers now. Anyone got the BMW front E24 part number? I think that was the bolt one countach caliper.

    Also Raymond has a AP caliper setup. I may go with that for the front

    http://www.countach.ch/Brakes/index.html

    A kit was provided by Carl Bridson with special brackets I think, hoses, banjos and calipers but are the still available? Anyone knows the part number of the APs?
    i think over time I am going to shoot for light and safe and keep my OEM rebuild and dry
     
  13. Chadbourn Bolles

    Chadbourn Bolles Formula Junior
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    I use Wilwood front calipers, no adapters, just open the mount hole to Lamborghini mm size and it is a bolt on, not costly either.
     
  14. Chadbourn Bolles

    Chadbourn Bolles Formula Junior
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  15. EarlyCat

    EarlyCat Moderator
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    For future reference, any particular Wilwood caliper?
     
  16. Countachqv

    Countachqv Formula 3

    Apr 25, 2007
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    No teasing Chad! lol... talk to me.. short of the $$$$ Brembos, the AP or Wildwood are very good.

    Specifically for front (for now):
    1. Front Caliper model number
    2. pads you use
    3. Rotors you use. I suppose the rotors can be used with both widlwood and OEM calipers?
    4. banjo/hose setup. I suppose the OEM setup does not fit

    By opening the mount hole I suppose you say "take a drill and just go thru the caliper hole". Thus do you re-use the OEM caliper mount bolts ?
     
  17. Peter K.

    Peter K. F1 Rookie

    Jan 9, 2004
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    Everyone should go with the Wilwood setup.
     
  18. Chadbourn Bolles

    Chadbourn Bolles Formula Junior
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  19. Chadbourn Bolles

    Chadbourn Bolles Formula Junior
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    OK here is the Wilwood information.

    Front caliper . 120-11330 .LH no color
    Front caliper . 120-11329 RH no color
    Front rotor . 160-2898 RH
    Front rotor 160-2899 . LH

    Rotor hat . front 171-3753 . These hats come un drilled and . NEED a centering ring to work on the Lamborghini hub. I make the centering rings, and can have hats drilled
    The rotor and hat only weigh around 8 lb where the Lamborghini rotor weighs around 18 lb.

    The pad I use is . 150-4332K
    You can get the calipers in BLACK on special order.
    The calipers DO NOT JUST BOLT ON. Wilwood only supplies them in USA bolt hole,,BUT no big deal to open hole up to MM and use the original Lamborghini bolts.
    I believe you can use the Wilwood caliper on the Lamborghini rotor, but have not tried that.
    You will need SAE to Metric adapters for brake lines. Most likely you will install SS brake lines anyway.


    Now if someone wants to do the rear brakes . This takes more work as the factory E-brake caliper does not clear the hat. Again, you can use the Wilwood caliper on the original Lamborghini rotor, BUT have not tried that, as I was looking at weight savings.
    If someone wants to do that I can show you how to modify the E-brake caliper.
    Rear calipers are 120-11137 RH no color
    120-11138 LH no color
    Hat for rear rotor is . 171-3754, and like front will need a centering ring and must be drilled.
    Rear rotor . 160-0471


    Questions drop me a line, be glad to help.
     
  20. Countachqv

    Countachqv Formula 3

    Apr 25, 2007
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    thanks chad. I am gonna check this out. Will ping you for questions. this will be my late fall project.
    i may get the drilled hats from you along with the rings
     

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