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A new manual Lamborghini

Discussion in 'Other' started by Bradwilliams, May 17, 2017.

  1. Shamile

    Shamile Formula 3

    Dec 31, 2002
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    +1

    Shamile

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  2. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
    253
    Austin TX
    some thoughts...

    Paddles have more gears, manuals have fewer...so Paddles need to be fast at changing because each gear is no where near as "long" as a manual 5 or 6 speed, that's how you end up in 7th gear at 40mph! Even if a Murcie or Diablo had 7 gears you would never be in 7th at 40mph or 30mph :)

    so "shifting speed" doesn't seem to matter as much as you might think, that is, if you have, for instance 5 or 6 forward gears vs 7-10 or however high they will go (for number of paddle shift gear boxes)

    a full auto, DCT that basically operates like a regular "automatic transmission" has its benefits especially for daily driving or driving in a lot of traffic, far easier than rowing and in / out of the clutch, especially on roadways with grades (up or down),

    and when you want an F1 experience, well, DCT it is, but it is really great to drive your way rather than some computer program's way..

    and, what about the parking brake, do you miss that, no more pull lever, automatically induced or a switch button control, what's curious about that, is if you track a car, you don't want the e-brake at all, you want the rotors to cool on their own without pressure being applied, so you need to remember to set it to not engage...
     
  3. TheMayor

    TheMayor Rookie

    Feb 11, 2008
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    Vegas baby
    The engineering is completely different. The cost to develop it would be too much for what it's worth. If there was a way to make money on manuals they would have done it already.

    I've also heard that the problem is we keep increasing the HP and torque. So, it's difficult to get a clutch that will hold and last.

    The HP wars are pushing the limits of clutch adhesion.

    AND... it's a lot easier to get a car that it completely under computer control to pass emissions and fuel mileage. I'm sure this is also a factor as well as certifying two different cars.

    One last thing I have also heard. The problem is that the clutch pedal has a difficult time passing some of the new partial head on crash tests. The clutch pedal bends inwards and could trap your foot or break your leg.
     
  4. ralfabco

    ralfabco F1 Rookie
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    #29 ralfabco, May 19, 2017
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
    It is interesting how most new exotic car buyers are probably old men who do not want to shift. You may also win approval for your purchase by pointing out to your wife, it is an easy automatic car to drive.


    Along comes the enthusiast who often prefers the manual. I guess the used buyer is younger ;).


    It makes sense to offer the manual as an extra-cost option for the new car buyer who would prefer the manual stick. Quite a few factory available options are worthless and a complete waste of money. A manual option would make sense for the niche buyer. The company should ask for a lot more money. Look at the production #'s for the late model exotic manual cars. The production numbers are just a few.
     
  5. Olivier NAMECHE

    Olivier NAMECHE F1 Rookie

    Aug 18, 2007
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    #30 Olivier NAMECHE, May 19, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Looking at Porsche commercial strategy, they offered the 991 R saying it was the last chance to buy a 911 manual stick... it was a rush, people just ran to buy it.

    Since, the model has been sold so many times on the market for almost the dubble value, even in auctions overhere in Europe.

    This was not the 1st tricky game that Porsche managed... I have now 30 years of ownership skill with the brand... and now they launch the new GT3 2018 with the choice to select PDK or again the manual stick...

    So, if Porsche meets with success, don't you believe that a beast like the Aventador in its last version should be a JOTA with RWD, 800hp, manual stick ? it will be the Ultimate sportcar to own ?

    Waiting for this, I'm still enjoying my Gallardo LP 560-4, which is one of the few to have manual stick in European spécifications...
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  6. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Rookie

    Feb 23, 2006
    4,884
    Italia
    Porsche did a GREAT succes on his last manual car and i thought it was a great move since i heard of the R

    i am ALL for a JOTA aventador with 800 hp and manual ...not sure lambo will spend the money for develop a 6 speed manual for it though..
     
  7. jgriff

    jgriff Rookie

    Jun 16, 2008
    5
    Houston, TX
    I know someone is going to mention economies of scale here but Chevy puts a manual in its 650hp and 650 ft/lb Camaro.
     
  8. INTMD8

    INTMD8 Rookie

    Jun 10, 2007
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    James Moran
    Lamborghini/Ferrari have done it already. Manual/paddle were offered side by side for years.

    As for the clutch, a non issue. Multi plate clutch can have a light pedal and hold any amount of power you want.
     
  9. Shamile

    Shamile Formula 3

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    True but that's because the 360 /430 and Murcielago generations were originally a manual system with a electronic shift overlay. The current generation of 458 /488 and Aventador were designed as paddle shift from the drawing board.

    Shamile

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  10. INTMD8

    INTMD8 Rookie

    Jun 10, 2007
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    Yes of course, all I'm saying is that for them and many other manufacturers it was/is possible.

    So while you might say it's more profitable to make just a dct trans you can't say that manual trans cars are just a loser financially speaking.

    Going back to the previously mentioned Porsche example, 911R, GT3 in stick, GT4, I don't think they are making these just to make people happy and lose a bunch of money.
     
  11. anunakki

    anunakki Rookie

    Oct 8, 2005
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    Jerry
    For sure they might be a money loser.

    What if the manufacturer does the engineering for the manual and not enough people order it to amortize that cost ?

    Thats when things like this become bespoke. Maybe if someone throws $10m at Ferrari they would stick in a manual. Everyone has a number. Chances are its just that no one has offered Ferrari enough to bother.

    As for Porsche, it could very well be a marketing expense. It generates hype in certain circles. Maybe that marketing expense makes sense to Porsche but not to Lambo. Or maybe it was just easy for Porsche to do

    I own a manufacturer and I see people online every day second guessing why we do things but they have so little inside knowledge all their guesses are incorrect.

    Im going to guess the manufacturers have very good reasons for doing what they do (or dont do)
     
  12. Shamile

    Shamile Formula 3

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    I will also add, the numbers speak for themselves. Since the 360 / 430 & Murcielago /LP640 era, how many people ordered stick? Ferrari and Lamborghini didn't twist anyone's arm or skew their direction. In fact the egear was a 10k option and people still overwhelmingly ordered it.
    At that point, it's just numbers vs. amortization costs. No point putting development dollars and research into something no one is going to buy.

    Shamile

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  13. willrace

    willrace Rookie
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    Oct 21, 2006
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    Actually, I know that Ferrari did, I'm one of several just on this board who hav pointed out this tactic during the 360/430 days. They made it sound like like I was trying to order a 4-cyl Lambo from the Ferrari factory, simply NOOObody orders them, and they're essentially special order that will take even longer to get your car built, we just don't order them with manuals, etc.
    Yes, they pretty much brow-beat buyers into the F1 system, which is, at least a significant part of why there are relatively few of them (manual 360/430).
     
  14. INTMD8

    INTMD8 Rookie

    Jun 10, 2007
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    For a one-off, sure it would be huge money. Even for a limited production however I don't see how they would end up losing.

    Can you see Lamborghini or Ferrari releasing a new car with a manual trans and they go un-ordered or sit unsold?

    As for Porsche, how many cars have to be sold to cover a gearbox, engine calibration and emissions certification?

    911r, GT4, now GT3, we are talking thousands of cars not just a handful.

    I'll concede that anything is possible, just don't think it's very likely all these cars are sold at a loss.
     
  15. rnelson

    rnelson Rookie
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    Oct 3, 2005
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    I'm pretty sure Getrag had an off-the-shelf manual transmission that could be used with a minimal amount of engineering.

    And AFAIK it's not like porsche made some all-new transmission for this 2018 gt3. They just dusted off the old 997.2 turbo part numbers.
     
  16. white out

    white out Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2010
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    There's a reason there are so few manual cars produced and the used ones sit, the masses want auto/automated manual.
     
  17. BULL RUN

    BULL RUN Formula Junior

    Dec 18, 2004
    755
    The discussion is pretty much obsolete as hybrids, and pure battery power will rule the day. You're not going to be manual shifting those.
     

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